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Posted on 22/04/08 09:54:54 |
richard
 Posts: 200 Reply  |
Controller Wiring - time to get it right??
Was having a chat to Geoff over the weekend, and I want to bring this up at the next racemeet, but posting it up here first for thoughts and considerations. At the moment, our controllers and tracks are wired incorrectly, which causes a short across the track and thus cars on the track will jump. If you follow the flow of plugging in a controller, you can see the short happening in this diagram (our current wiring): 
Is it time to re-wire all tracks and all controllers to the 'correct' version, as per Greg Braun's website, which will stop this from happening: 
I'm suggesting that after the racemeet at Geoff's place in June, we swap them around, so that we eliminate the 'jump' from our tracks. I know it's a bit of work, but with Dave building a new track, and Chad and myself in the midst of building a new track, it would leave Geoff, Cam and Karl to rewire their tracks and all of us to rewire our controllers. Any thoughts on this? Cheers Richard _________________  |
Posted on 22/04/08 11:09:53 |
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Karl
Posts: 261 Reply |
Re: Controller Wiring - time to get it right??
Hi Richard. We may already have it the correct way. I run an electronic controller on everyones track with no problems and believe it is wired up as follows (by my notes). Cheers Karl  |
Posted on 22/04/08 19:37:59 |
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richard
Posts: 200 Reply |
Re: Controller Wiring - time to get it right??
That's odd; according to this old thread: http://neophytte.mine.nu/forum/forum.pl?fid=05&topic_id=1154357236 we have our track and controllers wired differently ... ? _________________  |
Posted on 22/04/08 20:40:47 |
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CamZH
Posts: 773 Reply  |
Re: Controller Wiring - time to get it right??
Our tracks are wired as per the pic on your 1st post, Richard. I'm going to have a bit of a rant if you suggest we rewire our tracks to suit a 'correct' connection method. The 1/4" connectors are absolutly one of the worst connectors on the market for high current DC. Use a real connector  try XLR's, Speakon's, Poweron's, round earth pin mains plugs etc.
I personally dont see the 'jump' as that much of an issue, it doesnt happen with any of these other connectors either. From memory I brought this up a while ago and it seems that what we have is in place and its probably going to stay that way. Bear in mind that if we change our tracks every controller out there has to be changed to suit. Is this worth it just to fix the jump ? Personally I dont think so. But if you want to wire your track up 'correctly' just let us know and i'll make up an adapter lead  |
Posted on 23/04/08 08:48:27 |
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Karl
Posts: 261 Reply |
Re: Controller Wiring - time to get it right??
It would appear my wiring is as per Gregs site. Please note however, the "Jump" is probably not as a result of the wiring but as a result of the male phono plug being inserted into the female adapter which temporarily shorts out the first two contact pads as it makes its way in. (So the problem is with the wiring of th eplug and not the track) I would have thought with + being on the last contact pad on the female connector in the incorrect wiring diagram above (First one) that would have prevented the jump  |
Posted on 23/04/08 17:07:14 |
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Dave in Perth
Posts: 873 Reply  |
Controller Wiring - time to get it right??
if the electronic controllers work ok I'll stick to what we have I guess ie track wired as per the very first diagram put up by Richard
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Posted on 23/04/08 17:40:39 |
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CamZH
Posts: 773 Reply |
Re: Controller Wiring - time to get it right??
they are as per the 1st diagram. The jump is caused by the nipple of the plug shorting out the 2 contacts as it makes its way home. Ever had a controller not plugged all the way home and had the car just go flat out ? Just ditch these plugs already ! 
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Posted on 23/04/08 17:54:39 |
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Dave in Perth
Posts: 873 Reply |
Re: Controller Wiring - time to get it right??
NEVER!! |
Posted on 23/04/08 20:37:44 |
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CamZH
Posts: 773 Reply |
Re: Controller Wiring - time to get it right??
hmm, actually thinking about it more... With either configuration you will get a jump. with the power at the tip, or the sleeve, the track is always the ring. It will either happen as the plug is 1st inserted or as its pushed home. There will still be a momentary short from the power to the track... So just ditch 'em
The argment is stronger now 
And I don't even have shares in a connector company 
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Posted on 23/04/08 21:11:25 |
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soccerkiddo3
Posts: 207 Reply  |
Re: Controller Wiring - time to get it right??
I would have to agree that I had it wrong when I said that incorrect wiring caused the jump, it is simply the design of the plug and socket. So changing the wiring is only a matter of swapping 2 wires on each plug and socket. Now let see: 4 sockets on my track. 6 controllers with 1/4 inch plugs plus my adapter cord. Fortunately my extension cables will not need change but I do have the 4 sockets in the wiring for temporary tracks and my power supply does still have the 4 sockets in the front. That is 36 wires to unsolder and resolder and nothing gained except maybe a chance to put some better plugs on.  I think I am sorry that I opened my mouth when I didn't know what I was talking about. |
Posted on 23/04/08 21:23:25 |
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Karl
Posts: 261 Reply |
Re: Controller Wiring - time to get it right??
What else are you going to do tonight Geoff. Turn on that soldering iron. I know you want to? |
Posted on 24/04/08 10:20:20 |
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richard
Posts: 200 Reply |
Re: Controller Wiring - time to get it right??
Yes, I understand that it's a lot of work for all of us to rewire; my suggestion was that if we were to suggest this at the next meet at XLR8 and then run a vote/discussion (?) at Geoff's, then that would give people a month to think about it, and a month to impliment it, if we decided to go ahead. The reason for the timing is that we have 3 tracks currently being built, and 3 tracks which would require rewiring - as the next two racemeets would then be at my place and Dave's place, it would allow the track owners some breathing space to rewire their tracks, a couple of months or more. (depending when the next meet is at each track). However it sounds as though no-one is keen, so I'll keep my wiring standard. Cam, you seem to be confusing the wiring of the track with the connectors to the track, I was initially talking about the wiring of the track. Nothing to do with the connectors. I do understand your enthusiasm for the XLR plugs, but personally I find it a bit cost-inhibative, we use the 1/4" phono plugs as a 'standard' currently, adding the XLR to each and every lane adds extra cost to everyones track - I'm building on a budget at the moment, so $$'s saved in connectors go to other areas of the track. I know you're not on a budget, but hope you can understand my point of view from there. Cheers Richard _________________ |
Posted on 24/04/08 18:31:09 |
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CamZH
Posts: 773 Reply |
Re: Controller Wiring - time to get it right??
Of course I'm on a budget... I just dont compromise on something as simple as a connector. A set of XLR plug and socket is about $5-6 You will never had a problem, never have a jump, it will always work, no issues with some of those crappy 1/4 plugs that sometimes dont make contact. So for about $20 your problem is solved, permanently. I'll even donate you some XLR's !!
To put that inperspective its about $15 for a full set of 1/4" plugs and sockets. I dont see reterminating the tracks in existance is any step forward. If it was going to solve some massive issue sure, I'm all for it. But is it going to ? But please, if you are going to use 1/4" plugs and sockets, dont buy that crap from dicksmiths, I can supply you stuff that is much better for a similar cost. But at the end of the day its your track, do what you want. We'll come and race either way ! The track is looking good and its nice to see you've got your self a calander to work to. Feel free to yell if you need help, Now that Em's gone home i've got a bit more spare time. |
Posted on 24/04/08 18:37:55 |
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soccerkiddo3
Posts: 207 Reply |
Re: Controller Wiring - time to get it right??
What do you mean "NOT KEEN"? I already have the soldering iron on high and have given the tip a good tinning or two. Now what am I going to do with all that pent up flux?
I guess we should talk about it first. As for XLRs, our standard is 1/4" plugs. Heck even Cam has them on both sides of his track. They can't be too bad. (Now if I could just work out a way to mention reed switches in this reply.  ) |
Posted on 24/04/08 19:35:08 |
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Dave in Perth
Posts: 873 Reply |
Re: Controller Wiring - time to get it right??
yeah that bit on DSE plugs sockets.. don't buy 'em, they'll need replacing.. from someone who's done just that
while I'm at it, I've already done the main power wiring on my new track as per our original standard, which i believe I am responsible for  |
Posted on 24/04/08 21:17:03 |
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CamZH
Posts: 773 Reply |
Re: Controller Wiring - time to get it right??
hehe I remember back in the days of buying my 1st controller and wiring it up as Dave's suggestion (details provided by Greg Braun's web site), which was to have the power to the sleeve rather than the tip of the 1/4" plug... funnily enough it didnt work! 
above all buy good sockets !! Sockets are the hardest thing to change and if it costs twice as much for good ones its money well spent as they'll not need changing. The 1st set of 1/4" sockets i had on my track were a chinese copy of a Neutrik locking socket, the neutrik ones are about $10 ea! The cheap ones had really poor contacts and didnt last long at all, best ones I've found are ones from Cliff Electronics, they are just a nylon socket with spring contacts that come across from the side. nothing fancy but just work really really well, and only $1 each !! Can get nice little blanking plates so they mount in the same size as the xlr's so its all good !
they even make them in a range of colours ! but my supplier really only carries the black, but if you want 100 of them, just say so
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Posted on 24/04/08 21:22:44 |
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Karl
Posts: 261 Reply |
Re: Controller Wiring - time to get it right??
Get your 1/4 sockets from Cam Richard. I was surprised at the inconsistency of standards causing some cheap male plugs to not connect inside the female socket.  |
Posted on 25/04/08 19:10:45 |
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richard
Posts: 200 Reply |
Re: Controller Wiring - time to get it right??
Well Cam, if you want to donate them, I'll put them on the track ... Cheers Richard _________________ |
Posted on 28/04/08 12:40:11 |
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soccerkiddo3
Posts: 207 Reply |
Re: Controller Wiring - time to get it right??
Just thought that we should clear this up. Up to now none of the wiring diagrams which show both track and controller wiring have been 100% correct. Karl and I got into a bit of discussion about this over the week end and we ended up pull a controller and the portable track wiring to bits to see exactly what we are using. First off there is 2 parts to the wiring, firstly there is the track. Here we all do follow the standard. Richard you first diagram, the one that Dave copied is incorrect and will not work. The second part is the controller plug, here we do not follow the standard. (Mind you the Scalectrix/Ninco controls actually use the smaller stereo headphone jacks not the 1/4" plugs we use so is hardly applicable.) Here Richard, your first diagram is correct. So anyone doing any wiring here is our standard to follow: |
Posted on 28/04/08 12:41:41 |
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soccerkiddo3
Posts: 207 Reply |
Re: Controller Wiring - time to get it right??
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