| » Forum Index » Perth HO Slot Car Group » Topic: AHORA Inc proposed change to Super Stock Rules |
|
Posted on 25/08/08 11:25:53 |
|
ozhoslotcars
Guest Reply |
AHORA Inc proposed change to Super Stock Rules
AHORA Inc could look at a minor change to its Super Stock Rules. The change relates to tyres used in this class (refer below). Feedback required........ 
AHORA Inc proposed Super Stock Class Rules 1. All AHORA Inc General Class Rules and AHORA Inc Definitions apply to the Super Stock class. 2. Eligible Cars: Tomy Super G+, Tomy Turbo, Mattel/Tyco 440-X2, BSRT 440-T2, BSRT G3, BSRT G3R, Patriot 2, Patriot 3, Patriot Scorpion, Slottech Panther, Life-Like Fast Tracker (excluding Life-Like T Car). 3. Chassis: The chassis shall be stock, readily available, and cannot be cut or modified in any form (other than via normal track wear, or by drilling the chassis to fit a maximum of four body mounts). No chassis modifications, other than the addition of body mounts, shall be allowed. Double sided tape and/or velcro used to mount bodies shall not be deemed a chassis modification. Removal of a plastic armature heat shield shall not be deemed a modification. 4. Armature Magnets: The armature magnets shall be stock and cannot be cut or modified (other than via normal track wear) in any form. Armature magnets shall be manufactured from a ceramic material only. 5. Traction Magnets: The traction magnets shall be stock and cannot be cut or modified (other than via normal track wear) in any form. Traction magnets shall be of matching stock polarity and manufactured from a ceramic material only unless stated otherwise herein. The Tomy Super G+ shall use the stock black polymer traction magnets or stock two dot grey polymer traction magnets. 6. Flux Collectors: Flux collectors shall be illegal on the Tomy Super G+, Tomy Turbo, Mattel/Tyco 440-X2, BSRT 440-T2, BSRT G3, BSRT G3R, Patriot 2, Patriot 3, Patriot Scorpion, and Slottech Panther. The Life-Like Fast Tracker shall be allowed to use a stock flux collector, with such flux collector being the pole piece. 7. Ball Bearings: Ball Bearings shall be illegal. 8. Armature: Any stock, or stock replacement, armature shall be allowed. Stock armature cannot be modified in any form: no rewinding, dewinding, truing of commutator, gluing, or balancing. The minimum ohmage allowable shall be 5.8 ohms : measured pole to pole with the armature removed from the car after a five minute cooldown period. 9. Electrical System: The electrical system shall be stock, or stock replacement. Shunts shall be illegal. 10. Gears: Any pinion and crown gear shall be allowed. 11. Guide Pin: Any guide pin shall be allowed. The guide pin shall be mounted in the chassis in its stock position. 12. Axles: Any axle shall be allowed. 13. Rims: Any rims shall be allowed 14. Spacers: Front and rear axles may be fitted with spacers as required. 15. Tyres: Only slip-on silicone tyres and rubber tyres are allowed. Silicone / sponge combination tyres are illegal. 16. Body: Any Sedan/GTP/Sports Car soft body, manufactured from lexan or a similar lightweight material, shall be allowed. Body shall be suitably painted with a minimum of one car number to be displayed on the body at all times. Body to be securely anchored to the chassis and cover a minimum of 75% of each rim when viewed from above. Body shall be a replica of an actual car. Body shall not be fitted with any air control devices that are not part of the original body mould. 17. Glue: the use of glue shall not be allowed except to glue the guide pin in its stock position, and secure body mounts to the chassis. |
Posted on 25/08/08 20:48:31 |
Chadly
 Posts: 476 Reply  |
Re: AHORA Inc proposed change to Super Stock Rules
Just these two: Body - Any, including F1 style "open wheel" but must cover 75% of chassis when viewed from above - Body must be attached to car at all times whilst racing Glue - Glue may be used in any form except to attach guide pin (may be used to attach body posts) |
Posted on 27/08/08 20:38:21 |
|
ozhoslotcars
Guest Reply |
Re: AHORA Inc proposed change to Super Stock Rules
I know the WA guys run F1 /open wheel bodies however in the 'big picture' I prefer a class to look 'as one' (ie: a mix of open wheel and full body cars would look a little out of place). Glue : guide pin (to stop turning etc) and body posts (to stop falling out!) should be the only areas requiring glue in this class.... Any other input?????? |
Posted on 27/08/08 20:50:25 |
|
Dave in Perth
Posts: 873 Reply  |
Re: AHORA Inc proposed change to Super Stock Rules
re glue, some of the bodies we make here require a bit of glue to attach the inner body mount. Would this need mentioning, or does it just come under "Body" ? |
Posted on 27/08/08 21:45:26 |
|
ozhoslotcars
Guest Reply |
Re: AHORA Inc proposed change to Super Stock Rules
Dave, Can you provide an example? |
Posted on 28/08/08 08:05:11 |
|
soccerkiddo3
Posts: 207 Reply  |
Re: AHORA Inc proposed change to Super Stock Rules
Rod, The only question I have is why you don't allow the Life Like "T" chassis. Have you found it to be better performed? It seems to me to fit with these other cars nicely. |
Posted on 28/08/08 08:52:05 |
|
richard
Posts: 200 Reply  |
Re: AHORA Inc proposed change to Super Stock Rules
I think what Dave is talking about is that we have a few of us that run the Tomy SG+ in this category; the Lexan bodies that are manufactured fit to a resin cast piece which clips this to the body - these are generally glued together. One of the early examples below (this has since been changed to a resin cast piece) 
http://neophytte.mine.nu/forum/forum.pl?fid=05&topic_id=1173788270 Cheers Richard _________________  |
Posted on 29/08/08 10:50:39 |
|
ozhoslotcars
Guest Reply |
Re: AHORA Inc proposed change to Super Stock Rules
Revised set of Super Stock Rules below : deleted some of the older chassis, added the Storm + Thundercat versions. Changed rules for G+ traction magnets slightly. Reason Life-Like T Car not eligible is the neo traction magnets (+ not certain on armature ohm rating). Glue for body/mounts noted in Glue section... Anyway...how to these read.... AHORA Inc Super Stock Class Rules 1. All AHORA Inc General Class Rules and AHORA Inc Definitions apply to the Super Stock class. 2. Eligible Chassis: Tomy AFX Super G+, BSRT G3, BSRT G3R, Wizzard Patriot 2, Wizzard Patriot 3, Wizzard Scorpion, Wizzard Storm, Slottech Panther, Slottech Thundercat, Slottech Thundercat T2. 3. Chassis: The chassis shall be stock, readily available, and cannot be cut or modified in any form (other than via normal track wear, or by drilling the chassis to fit a maximum of four body mounts). No chassis modifications, other than the addition of body mounts, shall be allowed. Double sided tape and/or velcro used to mount bodies shall not be deemed a chassis modification. Removal of a plastic armature heat shield shall not be deemed a chassis modification. 4. Armature Magnets: The armature magnets shall be stock or stock replacement and cannot be cut or modified (other than via normal track wear) in any form. Armature magnets shall be manufactured from a ceramic material only. 5. Traction Magnets: The traction magnets shall be stock or stock replacement and cannot be cut or modified (other than via normal track wear) in any form. Traction magnets shall be of matching stock polarity and manufactured from a ceramic material only unless stated otherwise herein. The Tomy AFX Super G+ black chassis shall use the stock black polymer traction magnets or stock two dot grey polymer traction magnets. The Tomy AFX Super G+ grey chassis shall use the stock black polymer traction magnets. 6. Flux Collectors: Flux collectors shall be illegal on the Tomy AFX Super G+, BSRT G3, BSRT G3R, Wizzard Patriot 2, Wizzard Patriot 3, WizzardScorpion, Slottech Panther, Slottech Thundercat, and Slottech Thundercat T2. 7. Ball Bearings: Ball Bearings shall be illegal. 8. Armature: Any stock or stock replacement armature shall be allowed. Stock armature cannot be modified in any form: no rewinding, dewinding, truing of commutator, gluing, or balancing. The minimum ohmage allowable shall be 5.8 ohms : measured pole to pole with the armature removed from the car after a five minute cooldown period. 9. Electrical System: The electrical system shall be stock or stock replacement. Shunts shall be illegal. 10. Gears: Any pinion and crown gear shall be allowed. 11. Guide Pin: Any guide pin shall be allowed. The guide pin shall be mounted in the chassis in its stock position. 12. Axles: Any axle shall be allowed. 13. Rims: Any rims shall be allowed 14. Spacers: Front and rear axles may be fitted with spacers as required. 15. Tyres: Only slip-on silicone tyres and rubber tyres are allowed. Silicone / sponge combination tyres are illegal. 16. Body: Any Sedan/GTP/Sports Car soft body, manufactured from lexan or a similar lightweight material, shall be allowed. Body shall be suitably painted with a minimum of one car number to be displayed on the body at all times. Body to be securely anchored to the chassis and cover a minimum of 75% of each rim when viewed from above. Body shall be a replica of an actual car. Body shall not be fitted with any air control devices that are not part of the original body mould. 17. Glue: the use of glue shall not be allowed except : (a) to glue the guide pin in its stock position, (b) to secure body mounts to the chassis, and (c) to attach the body to a body mount. |
Posted on 29/08/08 19:59:49 |
|
soccerkiddo3
Posts: 207 Reply |
Re: AHORA Inc proposed change to Super Stock Rules
Good point on the T Chassis. Getting the arms out to measure them would be a real challenge. The rest looks good. |
Posted on 30/08/08 14:01:59 |
|
Chadly
Posts: 476 Reply |
Re: AHORA Inc proposed change to Super Stock Rules
why is the grey tomy SG+ chassis only allowed black mags? would be a great diasadvantage. BSRT chassis are allowed two dots, of course.........arent they? |
Posted on 31/08/08 07:08:06 |
|
ozhoslotcars
Guest Reply |
Re: AHORA Inc proposed change to Super Stock Rules
Chad, The new Tomy SG+ grey chassis is a much better product (mold) than the old black version (meaning the old Tomy SG+ black chassis needs a bit of help to get on the pace...). The new Tomy SG+ grey chassis handles much better out of the packet, and comes with black magnets (remember, they are polymer anyway). The BSRT G3 / G3R has to use ceramic magnets (not 2 dots) and because of the high tolerances in the design the G3/G3R with ceramic traction magnets is competitive with the Tomy SG+ grey chassis with its polymers. We are attempting to create an even playing field (in a roundabout way) and with the Tomy SG+ being the only 'over the counter' product in OZ we are also attempting to make it easy for a 'newbie' to enter the class and be on the pace... Hope thay explains it a little better..... |
Posted on 31/08/08 11:56:18 |
|
Chadly
Posts: 476 Reply |
Re: AHORA Inc proposed change to Super Stock Rules
Hmmmmmmmmmmm, that excludes about 3 quarters of our feild. I know i and some others would be prepared to re-gear (new traction mags or chassis) but others wouldn't. We just allow 2 dot greys over the board, if a newbie buys a car we will give him a set of 2 dots! That means G3's are running the same trac mags as Tomy grey chassis. And, honestly, who would run a black chassis just because you get to use 2 dots? But hold on, does this give any advantage over the wizard and slottech cars?  |
Posted on 31/08/08 19:57:28 |
|
soccerkiddo3
Posts: 207 Reply |
Re: AHORA Inc proposed change to Super Stock Rules
Rod, What gear can you run on a BSRT G3 chassis, BSRT or Tomy.? If BSRT, what traction mags? Don't they have full width (height) ceramics? Notched, unnotched? What arms? What would you call a Stock BSRT arm? If Tomy? Stock arm are fine but which traction mags? We had a stock Tomy class but with the black chassis breaking all the time, we allowed the G3 chassis (as did you I thought) as a replacement for the black chassis. It would seem that you now no longer allow it? I do find this whole Super G+ / BSRT chassis/bits to be very confusing. As Chad said, your rules I think would exclude 3/4 of our cars. A major concern I have over the black/2 dot grey traction magnets situation is that the black traction mags are a real lucky dip. I have some black traction mags that are as strong, if not stronger as any 2 dot greys but the 2 dot greys are a lot more consistent. Building a quality Stock Super G+ would require you to spend alot of dollars buying lots of cars until you get lucky with a set of good traction mags. It seems these rules simply exclude Super G+ from running as Super Stock. As Super G+ cars are one of the two cars that you can buy in Oz, we need a class where people can run them. I was hoping that our Modified Super G+ class cars could be run as Super Stock in AHORA events but with these rules it is not the case. I know that you cover this with your Improved Stock but I do like introducing soft bodies at the cheap end of the scale. Sorry if I am rambling a bit here. I am not sure if I made much sense or any real points other than to say we see the Tomy Super G+ / BRST G3 as interchangable for both chassis and parts. I think your rules imply that all parts must be the same brand as the chassis. ???????? |
Posted on 31/08/08 21:40:25 |
|
bobbin
Guest Reply |
Re: AHORA Inc proposed change to Super Stock Rules
2 dots and G3 ceramic are a major advantage over the black traction mags... Never seen this in the rules of AHORA before but what about pinning the chassis......I know technically the correct way to do it is you can buy a drilled chassis but what about allowing pinning, bumpers and body mount drilling in rules. Everybody drills wizzard body mounts for float but it is technically a chassis mod and not allowed. Food for thought, Ben |
Posted on 01/09/08 06:36:17 |
|
ozhoslotcars
Guest Reply |
Re: AHORA Inc proposed change to Super Stock Rules
If you want to run, what I will call 'mix n match' traction magnets (ie: 2 dot Tomy grey in a BSRT chassis as well as a G+) I think you would be looking at a new AHORA Inc Class, possibly called 'Modified' (to fit in between Super Stock and Restricted Open). 'Modified' could allow any polymer traction magnets, stock / stock replacement arm, and any rear tyres + pinned chassis etc (Ben makes a good point about the pinned chassis / drilled body posts etc but maybe drilled body posts could apply to Super Stock / Modified / Restricted Open / Open classes and pinned chassis to Modified / Restricted Open / Open only (its only when you go really fast that you may like to pin a chassis). Thoughts? As an aside to all this : you need to think 'big picture' (ie At a national level...) 1. 2 dot grey traction magnets no longer available in any new G+ car so supply is limited to those that have them, and those that don't (limiting the newcomer). 2. The old black G+ chassis, with number 2 stamped under the front axle, was a mighty fine handling chassis when you dropped some 2 dots in it......we used to scour the black chassis pile looking for the correct number stamped on them!!!!!! |
Posted on 01/09/08 07:53:31 |
|
soccerkiddo3
Posts: 207 Reply |
Re: AHORA Inc proposed change to Super Stock Rules
So what do you allow as "stock" in a BSRT chassis within your Super Stock class? What traction mags? What arm and motor mags? |
Posted on 01/09/08 13:38:26 |
|
Chadly
Posts: 476 Reply |
Re: AHORA Inc proposed change to Super Stock Rules
Tomy "polymer" trac. mags are nowhere near the strength of ANY BSRT poly trac. mags (even the cut-down, half height, low profiles). As i see it, the whole point of only allowing 2 dots in the old black chassis is to make that chassis competative. 2 dot mags are about the same strength as BSRT full height ceramic mags, so a BSRT chassis is always going to have a black chassis for breakfast! A new Tomy grey chassis can only fit half height mags in so a BSRT will eat that too unless the grey chassis has 2 dots! - solution: allow any ceramic trac mags (even the full heights for BSRT's), including 2 dots for any chassis. With the mounting of bodies, i think the rules for this class should be "MUST BE SOLID MOUNTS. All mounts or conections from body to chassis must be anchored solid" |
Posted on 01/09/08 22:16:53 |
|
bobbin
Guest Reply |
Re: AHORA Inc proposed change to Super Stock Rules
Just my thoughts.....but Stock-----how it came out of packet Improved stock------add any front and rear axle setups slip ons only Super stock--------add plated electrics, balanced stock arms, silicone sponge (ceramic tractions only....no 2 dots) Modified-------add 3 ohm arm limit, poly tractions, (2dots fit in here) Restricted Open------any arm, poly motor and traction magnets Open-----Anything goes.......
Local groups are open to run there own modifications to these rules if wanted i.e 2dots in impoved stock etc...but at end of day no one will be using g+ soon...they just arn't compedative unless racing other g+'s Ben |
Posted on 01/09/08 22:44:53 |
|
ozhoslotcars
Guest Reply |
Re: AHORA Inc proposed change to Super Stock Rules
My mind is about to be fried.......sort of like the time we first ran Wizzard cars here....a reputable US racer provided all the gear (I paid for it) and we 'fried' at least 6 armatures (in one day, between 2 chassis) running on my Maxtrax. The guy had provided the incorrect tyre diameters!!!!!! Expert!!! Yeh!!! But very 'pretty' seeing all that smoke!!!!! 
Few answers to questions and comments above..... BSRT Super Stock run BSRT stock parts (including ceramic traction magnets)...... Chad : don't think the word 'solid' is real good for HO body mounting, as most chassis with a body pin body mount system have a little 'float' in the system to aid handling
Ben : balanced stock arms may be OK for us guys in the know etc but I think Super Stock should be cost effective for newbies (ie: go and try a lexan body class without much cost!!!!!). But I'm liking the feedback guys 
Just a note, as everyone can no doubt see, its real hard to finalise a set of rules (car specs) that suit everyone. I had a reminder from a guy a month ago that he would not have been competitive at a National title event a few years ago if someone hadn't helped him (and his mate) out by lending them some gear........The AHORA Class Rules sometimes look mighty confusing to the newcomer however (from my point) I like to see a set of rules, that even if they are fairly complex, don't leave room for 'interpretation', because believe me, 'interpretation' often leads to major problems....I'm all for the KISS principle (keep it simple stupid) at club level but when you get to State / National events you need to make sure everything is correct..... And now its time for a snooze.....zzzzzzzzzzzzz |
Posted on 02/09/08 13:37:44 |
|
Chadly
Posts: 476 Reply |
Re: AHORA Inc proposed change to Super Stock Rules
Guys, IMO: - 2 dots = BSRT ceramics (so why not allow them, it just adds to peoples costs who dont have one or the other) - 2 dots are nowhere near as strong as current spec polys |
| page: 1 2 last |